Author: sabotmedia

Mk: And welcome to the Child and Its Enemies. A podcast about queer and neurodivergent kids living out anarchy and youth liberation. Gear up the child and its enemies. We believe that youth autonomy is not only crucial to queer and trans liberation, but to anarchy itself. Governance is inherently based on projecting linear narratives of time and development and gender onto our necessarily asynchronous and atemporal queer lives, and youth and teens are at the center of this form of oppression.

Our goal with the podcast is to create a space by and for youth that challenges all forms of control, and inspires us to create queer and trans liberation. ageless networks of care. I’m your host, MK Zariel. I’m 15 years old and I’m a youth correspondent at the Anarchist Review of the Books, author of the blog Debate Me Bro, and organizer of some all ages queer spaces in my city and online.

With me is Atlanta based activist Temperance Blick, one of the lockdown activists of the StopCopCity tendency. Hello, Temperance!

Temperance: Hi! Yeah, that’s me, Temperance Blick. My pronouns are he, they, and I. They it, or it’s complicated. And yeah, I’m a forest defender working to stop Cop City.

Mk: As many of our listeners know, you recently locked down at a breast feeding gory construction site in protest of police militarization and the destruction of the Welani forest.

Can you talk a bit more about this action and defend the Atlanta forest tendency?

Temperance: If you haven’t heard the city of Atlanta is right now constructing a 90 million plus tax funded facility to train the police. It’s been named by Atlanta City Council, literally an urban warfare training facility. It resides outside of Atlanta city limits, and the locals have not had the opportunity to agree upon it vote upon it anything.

In fact, the mayor offered the petition method to put it on the ballot. But when the forest offenders gathered over a hundred thousand signatures, twice the amount that he asked for, by the way, he decided he’s allowed to change his mind.

Mk: Wow, that state repression is so terrible and also so undemocratic of him to ignore public opinion whenever it doesn’t suit his political goals.

Trans youth face this kind of hatred too, given all the legislation targeting us and the way our voices are ignored in the name of protecting the children. Which, of course, doesn’t include the lived experiences of actual children. Given the similar oppressions we face, would you say that forest defense is a youth issue?

Or a trans issue?

Temperance: Both. On one hand youth are the ones who have to experience the future, and I don’t need to tell you how environmentalism and preserving the few green lungs we have left on the earth massively impact what that future looks like. Also, the militarization of the police doesn’t look good for people who don’t fit the weird American Gothic status quo.

It doesn’t look good for anybody, to be honest.

Mk: So in terms of tactics to create youth liberationist futures or a temporal youth liberation in the here and now, Do you think civil disobedience is relevant in the same way that actions like yours have been in environmental movements? What role would you say disruptive actions like this one play in youth liberation, if any?

Temperance: I don’t want to be the one to advise youth to act disruptively but, yes, civil disobedience is Very relevant, and I would say necessary, I’m reminded of this book I read in middle school, it’s called Frindle by Andrew Clements. To sum up grown ups have a very strict view on what the world is.

Cause what’s taught to us is hard to unlearn. But young people? Young people get to witness for ourselves, like adults know it and it freaks them out. But the truth is y’all are often right. Youth have advantages, more than you realize.

Mk: Thank you so much for giving voice to that.

Yeah it isn’t that there isn’t a knowledge of what youth can bring to liberationist movements. It’s that it threatens power, which is, of course, the point of anarchism. And I love that art and media were so inspiring for you as a younger person. When I was in middle school, I read it. Emma Goldman’s Anarchism and Other Essays for the first time, and it was my first experience of truly having a purpose and a community in life, and of feeling accepted in my queerness.

It’s so beautiful to find something meaningful in our teens, especially in middle school, when we’re faced with some of the worst social hierarchies. So on that topic, were you into community organizing or anarchism, forest events, youth liberation as a kid and teen? If so, what kind of organizing did you like to do?

Temperance: My schooling was unconventional. I went to an alternative school. But my parents taught me to think for myself. So I broke gender roles and spoke out about liberation from a young age. Also I had the internet, so I got schooled on things like gender and race equity when I, wasn’t a lot younger than you.

Censorship is rough, but it’s also impossible. There’s always a lot that slips through the cracks.

Mk: Alternative schools are so liberatory. I’m glad you got to experience that. As a homeschooled person, I can really relate to self educating and finding meaning in ways that are inherently outside compulsory education.

And yeah, censorship is so oppressive and very often targets queer and trans media. If you’ve heard of the initiative Ban Books Back by Firestorm Books, there are absolutely anarchist initiatives to help queer youth circumvent that kind of governance. But it’s still traumatic to live in a society where even queer thought is policed, where queerness is criminalized.

So speaking of abolishing all control, what would have made organizing more accessible for you at the time? I think if

Temperance: decent education had been accessible, and towns being walkable, I think the things I could do if I had been taught valuable and useful skills as a child, which aren’t often taught in schools.

Mk: That is so real. If youth have skills that can transform society, then again, that means that ageist power dynamics are less of a thing and that youth aren’t as dependent on adult supremacy to survive. And yeah, I wish you’d had access to that too. I’m so sorry that was a struggle. So how would you say that the defend the Atlanta forest tendency does with youth inclusion and how could it be more inclusive to organizers of all ages?

Temperance: Oh my friends and I have made an effort to make child friendly spaces. We have activists of all ages and maybe someday you’ll be able to interview my friend, Dr. Ari’s kid remix. He’s four years old, and he leads our chants at pro I think he’s two, but he Oh my god, that’s amazing!

Mk: I love the image of a two year old getting involved in an environmentalist movement. Like, when I was two, I just didn’t know any other humans yeah, that’s awesome.

Temperance: Yeah, it is. It’s incredible. We love to see young people come around. It’s inspiring. It reminds us what we’re doing this for, and it’s a good reminder to be good,

Mk: it really is, yeah. Adults intentionally making anarchist spaces kid friendly is such a powerful show of solidarity, and makes the community better for everyone. I’m sure that all the adults in that space love having a two year old kid involved. What advice would you have for kids and teens and, toddlers, I didn’t know that was a possibility, but cool. Who want to get into environmentalism and anarchy and defend the Atlanta forest.

Temperance: I would say, learn, talk, volunteer, volunteering is fun and you learn things. Make friends wherever you can, create the cycles you want to see in the world.

Whatever you want the future to look like, Start doing it now, in all the small ways however you can.

Mk: The advice to live out anarchy in those small, doable ways is so important. As kids and teens, how we can organize might sometimes be limited, especially if we’re within the education system, nuclear family, facing state repression, whatever it is.

But there are always ways to resist, and for every form of status depression, there’s always something beautiful that needs care and support. For example, the Weelani Forest. On that note, any shameless plugs relating to your organizing or stuff you think is cool?

Temperance: Yeah, nothing personal, I would say go download the app, no thanks just for fun.

I like the podcast Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. I think everyone should hear it. And follow StopCopCity and at DefendAtlantaForest on Instagram for updates on the movement to StopCopCity and Defend the Atlanta Forest. Free, Palestine.

Mk: Yes, thank you so much for sharing your youth liberation journey.

If anyone wants to learn more or join us on Discord and Signal, our website is thechildanditsenemies. noblogs. org. I’m MK Zariel, this has been Temperance Blyck, and you’re listening to Child and Its Enemies.

Episode 2

mk: Hello and welcome to The Child and Its Enemies, a podcast about queer and neurodivergent kids living out anarchy and youth liberation.

Here at The Child and Its Enemies, we believe that youth autonomy is not only crucial to queer and trans liberation, but to anarchy itself. Governance is inherently based on projecting linear narratives of time and development and gender onto our necessarily asynchronous and atemporal queer lives. And youth and teens are at the center of this form of oppression.

Our goal with the podcast is to create a space by and for youth that challenges all forms of control. And inspires us to create queer, feral, ageless networks of care. I’m your host, MK Zario, I’m 15 years old, and I’m the youth correspondent at The Anarchist Review of Books, author of Debate Me Bro, and organizer of some all ages queer spaces in my city and online.

With me today is Isabel Santin of Chosen Few Software. Hello, Isabel!

Isa: Hello there. My name is Isabel, but you can call me Isa. I go by she, her, and they, them pronouns. and primarily help as a facilitator slash leader of the Madison Area Transgender Association. Within that organizing space, I’ve helped to foster social connections between transgender adults living in the Madison, Wisconsin area, provide technical assistance for projects such as the yearly Holiday Trans Care Package Drive, and more recently aid my teammates with critical decision making for local queer events such as the TransJoy event.

Apart from volunteering for MATA, I am self employed as the HOO of my own software brand, Chosen Few Software, which I hope to eventually convert into a successful business venture and use as a leading example of how the software industry can become an agent of positive change in the real world. So you founded the tech company Chosen Few Software, correct?

mk: And y’all are predominantly youth in team space? Yes.

Isa: Indeed, I founded Chosen Few Software initially as a way for me to self publish my software applications in a way that was recognizable and visible in online spaces I participated in. I created the brand before coming out as a transgender woman in 2022, and I must say, my overall vision for what I want to achieve through the enterprise changed significantly alongside me.

Before coming out, the brand lacked two crucial components of successful branding, mission, and focus. In a way, accepting my own truth and identity helped my brand find an identity of its own. My vision for Chosen Few Software is to not only inspire, but actively cultivate positive change purely through the software engineering process.

This is represented by our motto of changing the world one line of code at a time. Furthermore, as a young expert in my field, I’m using my brand to build a platform for amplifying youth voices. A great example of this is Chosen Few’s very own Voices Audio blog, which releases monthly with a focus on creative writing and sharing the inspiring voices of tomorrow.

All this is to say, yes, Chosen Few software is built different. We strive to create a space where young engineers and creatives, including myself. And not only share those crazy big ideas, but also be given the resources to implement them in a real meaningful way.

mk: What has it been like to be a youth led and trans liberationist organization in tech spaces? Because when I think about the mainstream tech scene, I tend to picture bro y straight men on their computers, as I’m sure a lot of our listeners do, but of course, tech is for everyone. And it seems like what you’ve created with Chosen Few is collective, and queer, and a negation of all that straightness is.

Isa: For all intents and purposes, I have seniority in my field, namely software engineering. However, due to my relatively young age, and because I’m a woman, I’m not taken as seriously as I should be, at least by my older peers. I find myself constantly going against the grain, against the advice of the older generation.

I’ll hear, that’ll never work, or you shouldn’t approach it that way. I use this as my very reason for leading the chosen few. Our method is risky. It’s experimental, always treading into unproven grounds, but always through ingenuity and a shared sense of purpose of taking on big challenges, we define our own successes and achieve our goals.

Now, I do realize that makes my company very unattractive to invest in, but at this stage in the brand’s development, my goal is more to fulfill myself and my team creatively. Rather than be profitable, or even break even at that point. The most important thing to me right now is not the money and logistics, but the vision.

Making our dreams come true. Because the only thing between hopes and dreams and positive change is the willingness to act towards it.

mk: So as a younger person, did you ever get to access tech spaces like this that were so age and gender inclusive? What about community organizing spaces? Were you ever into transhumanism or anything else at the intersection of fairness and anarchy and technology?

Isa: When I was much younger, I was very much a lone wolf. I had a very few close friends through public school and later on online school, but I found it quite difficult to relate to my peers in terms of maturity. In a lot of ways, I was less mature than other kids around me because of my ADHD, but in a lot of other ways, my ability to hyper focus and my talent for mathematical and computational thinking made me unrelatable to my peers.

Who barely grasped a lot of the abstract thinking that computer programming requires. That said, I’m privileged. My parents ensured that I always had access to the technology, software, and edutational resources I needed to fully explore my interests and goals. My dad, who is a senior software developer, has always served as a guide in my explorations.

Always there to steer me in the right direction, but never stifling my unconventional workflows and solutions. In this sense, my parents served to create learning spaces around me, in ways that encouraged the natural progression of my tech related skills. I’ve only ever been involved in queer organizing spaces since I came out in 2022.

And by that point, I was well into what is legally considered adulthood.

mk: I’m so sorry about that lack of inclusion when you were younger. As a fellow ADHD person, I can attest to the many challenges of having an ungovernable mind in a controlling society, especially as a kid. So in terms of inclusion and opportunities to follow your passion, what types of resources or organizing spaces would have been helpful for you?

Isa: I feel that if there were more coding related lessons and clubs in elementary and middle school, I would have thrived. I’m always eager to share my latest software creations, hence the reason why I even created my brand.

A lot of what I do now, I feel like, in a joking sense, stems from that childhood dream of waving at the camera and saying, Look at me, Ma, I’m on TV!

mk: We so need liberatory education, though. I’ve heard about anarchist free schools and other projects that prioritize science and technology, and it should absolutely be centered in radical education spaces for those who are interested. In fact, this could even be an argument for unschooling and homeschooling. Outside compulsory education, kids and teens are more free to follow what brings us queers with us, whether that’s technology or anything else. So about that sharing of software creations and that look at me mime TV kind of moment, can you tell me more about Chosen Few? What kind of software do y’all make? And how can our listeners connect with their software if they want to use it?

Isa: That’s an interesting question. In short, we’re still figuring it out. We have a few open source projects that we maintain for absolutely free. But to support the development of those projects, we have a few very niche software projects that we currently offer via subscription to our Patreon page.

The biggest one at the moment is Save, the software analog video emulator. Think about how many times you’ve seen that cheesy fake VHS filter used in YouTube videos. Now think about what it might be like if that filter that everyone used actually looked good and authentic. That’s the major design goal for Save.

At the moment, the product has made dozens of sales and has a few features that we’ve developed as stepping stones to the bigger goal of the full VHS tape emulation. What makes our product different, however, is the fact that it mathematically models the real electric signals that transform and move through analog video equipment, such as VCRs and tape cameras.

It’s a really unique product, and there’s nothing else out there really quite like it. Also on the horizons is Surge, our custom image format for the web that serves as Chosen Few’s response to the global issue of bandwidth disparities. In a lot of marginalized and developing communities across the globe, people have limited access to rich educational resources such as high quality videos, podcasts, and images.

Surge for the Web is basically a custom image format that we designed to solve this problem. Not by making images smaller, but by creating a way for them to display sooner and in lower resolution. The format allows for dynamic, on demand downloading of just enough image content to keep interactive web pages usable and accessible for people with low bandwidth connections.

Information about both projects is available right now at chosenfew. software, so check it out.

mk: That is all so cool, and I’m sure so many of our listeners will love to check all that out. So what makes Chosen Few so inclusive for youth and teens? Like, in my experience, hacktivist type of spaces tend to be mostly adult professionals, yet they’re supportive of youth who are just getting into tech, or need help with their digital security, or just want to be in anarchist community. Given the increased digital surveillance on trans kids, as well as anyone trying to access reproductive healthcare, and so many other marginalized communities, multi generational spaces that can actually support kids and teens with our tech related concerns have never been more important. I know there are probably some anarchist tech people listening who would love to make their tech spaces actively youth liberationist, and it’s so awesome they all are.

Isa: The answer is simple. We believe that teens and young adults can make a difference. You don’t need a degree, or a diploma, or decades of career experience to have good ideas, and to make them real.

So much of young people’s thinking is pushed towards, When I grow up, I want to do X, Y, Z. But Chosen Few throws that out the window and says, Why wait till then? Let’s scale this down. Let’s make it tangible so you can make that dream real right now. That’s what I’d say is done at the very core of Chosen Few.

Basically, we don’t wait for change. Change waits for us.

mk: I love the atemporality of that. Waiting for adulthood is so often about asking us to change ourselves for some idealized future, and it’s so meaningful to see a youth liberationist base that empowers kids and teens to realize their dreams now. I used to think as a kid that when I grew up I wanted to be an activist, but now I’ve realized that anyone of any age can do community organizing, and the same is really true of tech. So in what concrete ways are teens and youth involved in Chosen Few?

Isa: Teens and youth are involved in every aspect of the Chosen Few software design, engineering, and marketing process. For example, more recently, the Search for the Web project has been thoroughly stress tested on various platforms and kinds of hardware by my online friends.

All of whom are still college aged students without a degree or even a job. Additionally, my younger brother, Eli, is still in his teen years, and he’s had a large influence on critical design choices for our gaming related projects such as Super Patrick, our flagship mobile game. In fact, he was quite literally guiding the early prototyping process over the shoulder as the game began to take shape.

Now, it’s our most popular product ever. Prove that teens and young adults not only have great ideas, but have the power to make them a reality. Furthermore, The Chosen Few hosts a monthly audio blog, Voices, with a focus on lifting up the young, inspiring voices of tomorrow through creative writing. You can also speak to the involvement of teens in The Chosen Few software brand, MK, as you recently starred on The Voices blog for its January 2024 entry.

All of these are concrete examples of how youth involvement in the Chosen Few software brand has had an extremely positive impact on its ability to fulfill its mission and goals.

mk: I love the way y’all platform people who are still in the education system, and the way you’ve worked with your brother on creating mobile games, that is all so wholesome and just brings me joy. And I also love the shameless plug for the interview we did about my sub stack and about youth liberation and about a bunch of other gay things. So on a related note, what would you say your experiences with this company have taught you about youth liberation? And more broadly, what would you say youth liberation means to you?

Isa: To me, youth liberation is central to human survival. At this point, think of how many more years it will take for people of our parents age to actually get seats in political office and be able to influence governmental policies in a hopefully positive way. Meanwhile, our generation has all the talent, all the ideas, all the willingness to do that can make those things happen much sooner.

So why not pursue that? Why not enable younger folks to make real global change? We all know the answer. That gives too much power to too many people. The gatekeepers at the top need to savor the little temporal influence they have left. My company is a reflection of this personal belief of mine. Kids can make a difference, and they can make a difference now.

That’s super important, and it’s what I want to exemplify as I move forward with this brand.

mk: So speaking of making global change, what is your relationship to anarchy like as a trans liberationist and youth liberationist organizer?

Isa: Anarchy is something that I want to do more research on. I want to read more about anarchist theory. I want to see how our societies could really make ways for us to implement more anarchist ways of living and producing. My relationship to these concepts is nebulous. But I’m drawn to anarchist spaces because I have a vested interest in researching and understanding how decentralization can play a role in dismantling harmful structures of control and power in a modern informational age.

mk: So how would you say the tech world intersects with anarchist organizing? I know we talked a bit about what anarchist tech spaces can look like, and I’m so curious to see how you view that overlap.

Isa: Anarchy is the purest form of decentralized control. In my mind, it’s the ideal way to organize a massive network. Whether that network is made out of computers or people, it makes little difference to me. The reality is that the computers we build are just as fallible as us. They just tend to do more and more of our thinking for us as they become more powerful and reliable. I think it’s an important part of the future of human evolution, but we live at a point in time where our societies are beginning to show their scars, show their weak points.

It’s a point of inflection that intersects with our reliance on digital computing and computer networks. We’re all still just trying to figure out how to move forward in a society that is changing too fast. That said, I think that putting effort and energy into decentralized networking technology, especially those designed for social communication, is a really important goal of mine as an anarchist software engineer.

The principles of decentralized trust and control, these have benefits within the realm of computers that are analogous to the same benefits we observe in decentralized societies.

mk: So what advice would you have for kids and teens who want to create their own software and do so in a transpositive and anarchist way, or what did you need to hear when you were younger?

Isa: My advice to young folks wanting to get into software is to start exploring as soon as possible. There’s so many resources out there for varying skill levels. However, it’s important to also go into it, especially as a beginner, knowing that computers are really freaking dumb. You have to tell them how to do every single little thing, and even with the advent of generative AI, that’s not ever going to go away.

So it’s about learning a new model of thinking, restructuring the way you solve problems so that it fits into the mold of what computers are capable of handling. In other words, don’t be afraid to take chances, make mistakes, and get messy. Errors will occur all the time. It’s what makes us human.

mk: That idea of tech as iterative is also so true of anarchy. I love the idea that our imperfections are human and beautiful, and that software can be accessible for anyone. So, speaking of making software, specifically your software, accessible for everyone, do you have any shameless plugs that you’d like to share?

Isa: Totally! Visit our website, type chosenview. software into any browser and you’ll find it. You can also find the CFS brand on Facebook. Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter. I refuse to call it by the new name, by the way.

mk: Thank you so much for sharing your youth liberation journey. If you want to learn more or join us on Discord and Signal, our website is thechildanditsenemies. noblox. org I’m MK Zaria.

This has been Isabelle Santin and you’re listening to The Child and Its Enemies Now. A proud member of the Channel Zero Network.

Isa: Bye everyone. Thank you.

Mk: Hello and welcome to The Child And Its Enemies, a podcast for and about. We are a neurodivergent, kids living out anarchy and youth liberation.

Here at the child. We believe that youth autonomy is not only crucial to queer and trans liberation, but to anarchy itself. Governance is inherently based on projecting linear narratives of time and development and gender onto our necessarily asynchronous and atemporal queer lives. And kids, teens, and everyone else affected by anti childism are at the center of this form of oppression.

Our goal with the podcast is to create a space by and for trans liberation. Kids and teens that challenges all forms of control and inspires us to create neuroqueer, feral, ageless networks of care. I’m your host, MK Zariel. My pronouns are they, them I’m 15 years old, and I’m the youth correspondent at the anarchist review of books, author of the blog, debate me, bra and organizer of some all ages, queer spaces in my city and online with me today is our first ever guest Skye G Garcia, who is a community organizer.

and freedom fighter. Hello, Skye.

Skye: Hi, I am stoked to be your first guest. As MK said, my name is Skye Gia Garcia and my pronouns are she, her, hers. My business in Madison is primarily centered around my work with Outreach LGBTQ Community Center, along with my personal advocacy work that continues no matter where I live and who I am affiliated with.

Mk: So you work with Dane County Youth Action Board for a project led by queer, trans, and unhoused young people, right?

Skye: I am currently employed by Outreach, LGBTQ community center, and I was hired to work for a program that’s now called EverStrong. And it was one point called YHDP, which stood for Youth Homelessness Demonstration Project.

EverStrong is a program that has been designed and led by Dane County’s Youth Action Board. And the YAB is made up of youth between the ages of 14 to 24 who have a lived experience of housing insecurity and some of them just so happen to be queer. So that has resulted in the program design being inclusive to all people, especially those most marginalized in the LGBTQ community.

Mk: I would love to learn more about that, but first I’m curious about how you organized as a teenager. Did you have access to spaces like the Youth Action Board, or was there other organizing, or just other ways of experiencing and creating anarchy that were meaningful for you?

Skye: I wish, MK, no, not at all. Uh, there was nothing for me to access like the Youth Action Board in my hometown of Rockford, Illinois.

I believe that every city should have a Youth Action Board, and that we should continue to be led by radical youth. who wish to break the molds that bind us. The best ways that I could think of my presence and existence creating some type of anarchy was by defying gender norms that existed. So, in high school, if there were categories that Were meant to exclude what the gender was that I was based off of.

I didn’t allow that to stop me if I was passionate about, let’s say the dance team, for instance, I ended up auditioning for a dance team that was originally all one gender and made it co ed by just putting myself out there. So I would say that. Due to the support that I had from my peers, we were successful at overthrowing authority that was rooted in heteronormativity and patriarchy.

Mk: I love that for you. Especially given the oppression of compulsory education, it is so beautiful to create anarchic liberated spaces in high school. I say this as someone who founded an anarchist queer collective at my middle school. So, um, on that note, um, can you tell me more about the youth action board?

What kind of cool projects do you get to support these queer kids in?

Skye: I definitely can. I just wanted to say that, especially from my experience working in Rockford for an LGBTQ community center. It was always so inspiring seeing how youth in middle school were starting clubs like a GSA or a queer anarchist club.

I mean, that is mind blowing to me because there’s nothing like that when I was in middle school in my immediate experience. So it’s really inspiring. I just wanted to give you your flowers, MK. That’s super awesome.

Mk: Uh, thanks. I mean, middle school is when social hierarchy really starts to get ingrained, like, I mean, adults always compare the most hierarchical situations to their middle school experiences, so for that reason, I think it’s like the best time to find anarchism, and I’m so grateful that I did.

Skye: Me too, honestly. Uh, so in terms of your question of the types of projects that I get to support the youth in, my favorite way to support the Youth Action Board is by supporting Creating space for their autonomy to flourish respectfully, I have made sure to show up in meetings with other adults who may not understand the importance of their leadership due to their age and indoctrination that says that they should delegitimize these youth because they supposedly don’t have lived experience as an adult, but time and time again, these projects that I’m a part of are proving that the experience that youth do have is just as valuable, should be legitimized as much as possible.

I mean, this program that exists in Dane County is designed to be like no other social service offered in the area. So we were able to provide necessary support in ways that haven’t been possible, all in an effort to end youth homelessness.

Mk: So, what have your experiences with this Youth Action Board taught you about youth liberation as a strand of liberation and as a way of relating?

And more broadly, what would you say youth liberation means to you?

Skye: My experience with the Youth Action Board has reminded me of the success that comes from having no hierarchy of leadership. To me, youth liberation means listening to the voices of the youth and allowing those voices to overpower our own as adults, so long as it’s rooted in expanding consciousness and liberation of all oppressed people.

Mk: I love that vision of accompliceship being about shedding power and doing that in a way that’s deeply anti hierarchical and about not only centering youth But giving you the space to not govern and not be governed and simply exist in care and solidarity and queerness with one another. So on that topic, what would you say your relationship to anarchy is like as a trans and youth liberationist organizer?

Skye: My relationship to anarchy looks like being a part of a multitude of different horizontal collectives and projects. Constantly, I am dedicating myself to sacrificing any type of privilege that I could hold by refusing to stay silent. So, in my eyes, silence buys a lot of people privilege. And by refusing to do so, I’m not only sacrificing that privilege, but I’m putting myself on the front lines and assuring that the institutions who wish to uphold oppression, that they know who I am and that they know who I stand with.

Mk: That idea of silence as buying privilege is so important for liberation and honestly with queer liberation. Like, I think about Audre Lorde’s essay, The Transformation of Silence into, I think, power and action or something. Like, so many people simply default to never speaking on an issue and privately having feelings about it, but not necessarily actually organizing around it.

Like, I see this so much with teenagers who have concerns about compulsory education and the nuclear family. I just lament that they don’t learn at school and feel repressed at home and still haven’t transitioned and paid their life, but still won’t organize around that. And I don’t fault them for that at all.

Like, it’s so hard to get into organizing when you’re a teen and the organizing world is pretty adult dominated, but it’s also. So hard to stay silent as a teenager.

Skye: It blows my mind, MK, actually, because I meet a lot of people who are in that exact predicament. They are aware of it. They will complain to me about it.

And in my eyes, and I can see you were the same way, when I went through that process, I immediately began taking action and organizing. And it’s almost like some of the people who will talk to me about these things, it’s like that thought never, like, pops into their head. And, um, like you said, it’s nothing to fault them for.

Instead, I’ve found that lending support and compassion and a listening ear and planting maybe a seed that will hopefully, like, be watered by the ways that they’re dissatisfied and then sprout and bloom, like, that’s how we, you know, support the revolution, I think.

Mk: Exactly, and also creating spaces that meet teenagers where they are, like, I was giving a workshop on youth liberation once, and it came up that organizing spaces in schools are so important, because, like, if you’re a teenager, it’s intimidating to be functional, but if you organize with your classmates, then that takes that out of the equation, and I’ve known teenagers who have gotten radicalized that way, and we need that accessibility in the world.

So what advice would you have for you? Do you want to get into community organizing at school, or in their communities, or whatever? Or just generally liberate themselves and find more autonomy and care? Or what would have felt useful for you when you were younger? I think

Skye: a really big thing, because I get asked this question quite commonly, so it’s, it’s nice to really get a chance to think about it, and I like to focus on the topic of fear.

I feel that fear is what stops a lot of folks from taking action that can radically change their life for the better, and I feel that fear is weaponized against people and used to stop them from taking those actions. So my advice is that folks, you should just accept whatever fear that you have, and you should work with it.

I always think that accepting the truth and then embracing it is the best way to changing what’s possible. And I think that if you instead allow the fear to guide you in identifying barriers, that it would work more in your favor because, like I said earlier, fear is corrupted and influenced by external factors.

But fear can serve a purpose that is productive and it’s a human experience. I would say the more that I’ve healed my relationship with fear, the more that it has served to protect me because there’s an intuitive aspect to it as well. And if you want to get, if you want to get into community organizing because you recognize the ways that it will liberate you and your community, you should really start your own collective.

Do not allow the fact that you may only start with a few people to deter you. Remember to value the contribution and power that just one person has to offer, even if that one person is just you. Believe in yourself. I believe in you. And if you ever forget, find me because I will remind you.

Mk: That idea of starting your own collective is such a formative thing for so many teenagers I know, because even more than just learning to organize and meeting cool people, it, it can really be a way to prove to yourself that anarchy is possible, and that you’re in a group that isn’t hierarchical with people your age, and that can not only work, but even make people’s lives better and make you feel liberated and human, so.

If you could say anything to a teen out there who’s feeling that fear and is struggling with something going on in their life and looking for community or connection, what would that be?

Skye: So for anyone out there who’s listening, if you find yourself disappointed and uninterested in the status quo of mainstream society, and you want something different for yourself, just please don’t give up.

Listen to my voice when I say this. Please don’t give up. Not only is another world possible, but another world is happening at the exact same time. I see this other world every day. I live this other world with my own eyes and soul. So allow my voice to support you in shattering the illusion that your community isn’t trying to find you, and shatter the illusion that your community doesn’t exist, because we are here, we are looking for you, and we believe that we will win.

Mk: I love that so much. So many teenagers need to hear that. I know I need to hear that as a 13 year old. So, thank you so much for putting that into the world. And finally, in case teenagers, um, want to learn more about your work, um, any shameless plugs?

Skye: Yes. If you would like to follow me on Instagram, you totally can.

That’s a safe place to reach out to me and to follow what I’m up to. My Instagram handle is Skyebinary. That’s S-K-Y-E-B-I-N-A-R-Y. And then you can also find me on Facebook at Skyee Gia Garcia, S-K-Y-E-G-I-A-G-A-R-C-I-A. Thanks so much. Okay.

Mk: Thank you so much. And is there anything you would like to say to close out this podcast?

Skye: MK, I actually do have a question for you. I just visited the National Summit to End Youth Homelessness in D. C., and there was a panel of youth there that were speaking on their experience and speaking of what needs to be done in order for change. One of the youth had a question for Alvi. Adults in the audience and they asked, what are you doing to liberate youth?

What, what are you doing? So I kind of, I would love to ask you, what can adults do? You know, there will be adults who are listening to this as well. What can those adults do or just adults in general to assist in the liberation of youth? Well,

Mk: I’d actually like to turn that question on its head and say that adult accompliceship doesn’t mean liberating youth.

It means empowering youth to liberate one another and create networks of care, because at the end of the day, if they’re in a position where we are supported by adults, but don’t have our own ways of providing care to one another, then adult supremacy stays in place and statism isn’t challenged. So, I would really say, um, supporting teen led organizing.

If you are an adult in a community organizing space, pushing those youth specific events and campaigns, such as even direct obstruction of conversion therapy and other queer youth oppression, um, Obviously treating young organizers as equals, taking on emotional labor and care work in support of teens, letting teens initiate conversation about age rather than making everything about the fact that we’re teenagers.

But more than anything, just Seeing what youth need and what organizing we’re already doing or what organizing we want to be doing and supporting us in that.

Skye: You know, I really couldn’t agree more with you, especially when it comes to that acknowledgement of the ways in which adults supporting youth has actually contributed in the past to youth not being able to be independent.

I really loved that you put an emphasis on that. Uh, because that’s what some of these cycles would do actually, they acknowledged it during the summit on youth homelessness that they were putting youth in positions where they could gain expertise and things like that, but it was really only valuable while they were in that position, and they couldn’t actually take that position to a legitimized standpoint that would get them a job with a living wage or anything like that, because that whole position was dependent on those adults and the operations in which they ran.

So. That was, that was amazing. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were, if I see you being a keynote speaker for one of these summits soon on youth liberation all together.

Mk: That would be cool. But yeah, I agree that a lot of times, um, adult support for youth can really get towards, um, charity rather than mutual aid.

Similarly to how quote unquote straight allyship doesn’t necessarily liberate queer people unless it centers queer people’s actual needs and lived experiences. But I also think that adult accompliceship is so important and stuff like Dane County Youth Action Board that is about building youth autonomy and youth mutual aid and support and so happens to be facilitated and supported by adults really has its place as a youth liberationist basis and is so important and I’m so glad you’re doing it.

Skye: Awesome. Thank you so much. That’s sounds like a good sounds effective. Thanks so much for both of your time

Mk: Thank you so much for coming on this podcast. Yeah.

Skye: Thanks to you MK. We’ll see you guys. Bye. Bye.